ESS 418: Q&A with your engineering counselors

Laura Vogt:
Hello, thank you for joining us on this week’s Not So Secret Guide to Being a Berkeley Engineer. I’m your host, Laura Vogt, the Associate Director of Marketing and Communications in the College of Engineering. Last week, we didn’t get enough of hearing from our awesome counselors from University Health Services. So we’ve got them here again. Hello and welcome Christine Zhou, Yi Du, and Genee Jackson. In case someone is tuning in and didn’t catch your introductions last week, let’s give them a quick introduction of who you are and your role at Berkeley. Yi, you get to go first.

Yi Du:
Okay. Hi everyone. My name is Yi Du. I’m a staff psychologist from counseling and psychological service. I joined CAPS in 2015. I’m originally from China and I’m very glad to be here.

Laura Vogt:
Thank you for being here again. And Genee, your turn.

Geneé Jackson:
Hi everybody, I am Genee Jackson. I’m a clinical psychologist and I’m a senior staff psychologist at CAPS, and I practice privately in Berkeley and San Francisco as well. I’m originally from New York. I have been affiliated on and off with CAPS for decades. I came here as a doctoral intern in the ’90s and then left and came back, specifically to CAPS, last year. And helped to form an African American mental health team at CAPS. So I’m part of that and do a lot of specialized program and outreach for the African American and BIPOC communities there.

Laura Vogt:
Well, thank you. And welcome back to Cal, then.

Geneé Jackson:
Thank you.

Laura Vogt:
Christine, your turn.

Christine Zhou:
All right. Hi everybody. My name is Christine Zhou. I’m also a senior staff ecologist from CAPS. I started a satellite office here in engineering back in 2012. And since then I’ve been working with students, faculty, and staff here at engineering. I really absolutely love working with you guys. And I felt like it’s a great honor. And on the other side of my job and at CAPS, I’m also a Director of Operations for the UC Berkeley Global Institute for Counseling and Student Mental Health.

Laura Vogt:
Well, last week we really got to know each of you as counselors and psychologists. And what guided you in choosing your career, how you approach student counseling, and a couple of fun facts. So this week, I wanted to talk more about what a counseling session looks like, address some of the common questions student bring, and talk about how the pandemic and remote learning is going to affect our students and how they can prepare, and cope, and be successful. Yi, can you tell us what a typical counseling session is like?

Yi Du:
Yeah. I normally start a session with open ended questions. For example, I would ask “How are you doing? What would you like to share with me today? And how have you been since our last session?” If it’s the first time meeting, I would also want to focus getting to know each other, because I know it’s not easy to come in to talk to a stranger. So I would like to share a little bit about myself, and ask about their goals, what their expectations are, and then go from here. So I try to really focus on making the person feel comfortable enough to start building our relationship.

Laura Vogt:
Thank you. And Genee, is there anything that students should do when they’re preparing to come see a counselor?

Geneé Jackson:
Well, I think the first two steps are kind of logistical. Because you first really want to make sure that your insurance covers your visits. Of course, if you’re coming to CAPS, the counseling services are free. Insurance is only an issue at CAPS if psychiatric services are needed. But that’s always something to think about for people who, even if they’re not coming to CAPS, just to think about that. The next step is that you will fill out some forms that ask some really basic information, just in order to get you in our system and to give us some basic ideas about what’s going on with you. And once all of that’s out of the way, there really is no special preparation needed to visit a counselor. You just need to be open, honest, and ready to talk about your behavior and your feelings.

Geneé Jackson:
Just be prepared to share a lot about your life and your background. Of course, you’d want to also share about the immediate reason you decided to make the appointment, but the counselor is always ready to listen and to hear you talk about whatever you need to talk about. Sometimes, it’s difficult to explain why you feel a need to talk to somebody and that’s okay too. You don’t need to have a really organized presentation. The counselor can help you figure out what’s going on and outline steps to take to address it.

Geneé Jackson:
In this case, the counselor might get started by asking a lot of questions to help you figure it out. The most important thing to know is that anytime you speak with a therapist, everything that you share is kept confidential within the University Health Service. It’s not shared outside unless the student actually signs a release requesting us to do that. And the exceptions to that confident confidentiality are, if someone says they’re at risk of being harmed and they’re either at risk of harming themselves or someone else. But other than that, it’s kept in that room.

Laura Vogt:
So it sounds like you just need to really focus on being able to go in and being willing to talk?

Geneé Jackson:
Yeah, yeah.

Laura Vogt:
And Christine, what are some of the common challenges facing our engineering students?

Christine Zhou:
So since 2012, I’ve been working with students in the college. I think the students reach out to counseling services with a wide range of concerns, such as academic pressure, interpersonal relationship struggles, career issues, identity concerns, history of trauma. And these are just some of the examples that given that Berkeley Engineering is one of the best engineering program in the world, there are tons of pressure to achieve academically. For example, everybody was at the top of their classes prior to entering Berkeley. And it is completely understandable, many students feel overwhelmed and anxious when they start to experience academic challenges for the first time in your life.

Christine Zhou:
Many students experience imposter syndrome, questioning if they belong to Cal, and questioning if they have what it takes to be successful. I often use the analogy of athletes. So you’re a fantastic athlete and you won the regional match, or even now you’re going to the national event or even going to the international Olympic game. And so there’s definitely more pressures anxiety because of the level of competition. However, if you listen, watch interviews for athletes who are world class athletes, and when they talk about how they compete, they usually say, “I just want to go out there and just really give it my best shot and also have a lot of fun.”

Christine Zhou:
And so I think I talked to my students about how to focus on the process of learning and trying to put less pressures on the results. At the end of the day, if you’ve done anything and everything in your power to give it your best shot and there will be no regret. And that’s pretty much all you can do. And obviously, and then, we can talk about how to manage and deal with disappointment, discouragement. But I think a lot of the times when people tend to focus too much on the results and forget about process. So I do think that that’s one thing to keep in mind, just enjoy the process of learning.

Laura Vogt:
And Yi, because you’re coming in this year and you’re actually going to be working with our graduate students. Can you tell us, is there a difference between the needs of the grads and the undergrads?

Yi Du:
Yeah, I think so. While some of the concerns may be very similar, being at Cal, the academic stress. At the same time, I think undergraduate students and graduate students, they are definitely facing different sets of challenges. For example, grad students… Sorry. For example, undergraduate students are young, emerging adults coming to college. They’ll often experience challenges with that. Coming to a new system, getting to know this new learning environment, finding their major, their future directions, developing friendships, developing their own identities.

Yi Du:
And for graduate students, however, many of them are later on in this identity development stage, I believe. And many of them are also GSI. So they take on extra responsibilities as an instructor, interacting with their students, engaging in teaching. And they have many extra responsibilities outside of their classes. So they also have research responsibilities. So when they are seen as professionals in many ways, they’re still instructor in training or researcher in training. And they need support.

Yi Du:
What I noticed in my work with graduate students is that they often feel like they should know how to do their job, or it’s a bit harder for them to ask for help. When that happens, may feel very isolating. And that would lead to some imposter feelings. For example, they will feel like imposter and their success is largely due to random luck, not their actual competence. So communicating their needs to their advisers and PIs is also a challenge. Some graduate students deal with additional responsibilities as they start to establish their own families and become partners and parents. We probably don’t have time to name all the challenges. But as you can see, graduate students are not only dealing with academic demands at Berkeley, they also face more challenges and changes coming with the life stage they’re in. These are very developmentally appropriate. Yet, they can also be very stressful.

Laura Vogt:
Thank you. And Genee, what do you think some of the barriers in seeking the counseling services are?

Geneé Jackson:
Well, depending upon your cultural background, and in some cases, your religious beliefs, you might face stigmatization by family and friends. If it’s known that you’re seeking counseling. So I think that’s something that keeps a lot of people away from seeking it out. That barrier can also be an internal barrier that you yourself might feel like “There’s something really wrong with me if I have to go talk to a counselor, and that only severely disturbed people do this.” And of course, that’s not at all true. But it it’s hard to know that if you haven’t ever experienced it or talked with a counselor or talked with other people who also visit counselors.

Geneé Jackson:
It’s really just a matter of getting help from an expert in the same way you might get help from a surgeon if you needed surgery, or using a lawyer if you need to interface with the court system, or a clergy if you thought you wanted to talk through what might be a religious issue. You want to work with someone who has expertise in what it is you are struggling with. And again, as I said earlier, it’s really important to understand that anything you share with the counselor, including the fact that you even came into the office, is completely confidential. So if there are concerns about family, friends, or community being aware that you’re seeking services, that should not at all be a concern. You can be assured that that doesn’t happen.

Laura Vogt:
Excellent. And how can students find out about when counselors are available and how to make their appointments? And I know that COVID-19 has impacted how we deliver the services, but has it impacted the services itself?

Christine Zhou:
Usually, each one of us will hold two hour block walk-in hours. Usually, mine hour is 2 to 4 PM on Tuesday. Genee’s hour is 10 to 12 on Wednesday. And Yi’s hour is 10 to 12 on Thursday. So during those walking hours, and the students don’t usually have to make appointments. Instead, they can just pop into our office and have a brief 15, 20 minute chat. And it’s meant for informational gathering and also trying to figure out the plan from there, whether to connect students with resources or set up appointments from there. However, due to COVID-19, we have made all services available virtually. So right now, we still hold the walking hours, the hours remain the same. But instead of popping to our office, you now just have to pick up the phone and call our office phone numbers. We’ll have the phone numbers listed on the website.

Christine Zhou:
So what you need to do is to leave us a message, please spell out your name, your phone number, and the best time to call you back. And we’ll get back to you within the two hour walk-in down our block. And so will be very similar, and we can chat with you very briefly and then try to understand what got you interested in counseling, and trying to get you connected with resources or set you up with appointments. With appointments, it’s very similar. So right now we offer all the appointments virtually as well. And so we could do either phone appointments or via Zoom. So some students have preference, and I’ve had students who prefer phone appointment over Zoom, because they don’t have a private space where they live or at home, or they prefer to actually talk to a counselor. But at the same time, taking a walk over the block and still do some self care activities, but others felt like they wanted to connect more personally so they prefer Zoom. So whatever is your preference, and we will accommodate. And so that’s how to access our services right now.

Laura Vogt:
Yi, is there a session limit and our cost for the services? I know Genee spoke about it a little bit earlier.

Yi Du:
Yeah. So all counseling and consultation services provide us through the satellite offices are free. However, they are short term in nature. So depending on the availability of the counselor and amount of students seeking services, you can work closely with your counselor to figure out a right plan for you in terms of length and frequency of treatment. But if you need a regular individual treatment and you’re familiar with the counseling process already, we normally work with students to help you find the right referral in the community.

Geneé Jackson:
Also, as I mentioned earlier, if the psychiatry services are needed, the students would need to have CHIP insurance to use those services at CAPS. So it could otherwise be very expensive. So without the CHIP insurance, we also would typically assist students in finding a community deferral.

Laura Vogt:
Thank you. And Genee, how has the satellite office services similar or different to the counseling services that they get through CAPS?

Geneé Jackson:
The satellite offices at engineering are part of CAPS. We provide counseling, outreach, and consultation services in the same way that CAPS provides, with the exception of crisis and emergency services. So if it is a crisis or an emergency situation where you or others are at some imminent risk, please utilize that same day walk-in service that we have at CAPS on the third floor of the Tank Center from 10 AM to 5 PM, Monday through Friday. If you don’t walk in, you can call (510) 642-9494 to speak to an on-call counselor and consult about whatever the situation is. The benefit of having the satellite office closer to all of the engineering buildings is that students can have easier access to those services. And the satellite counselors might have more familiarity with the challenges engineering students are facing and different kinds of resources that are provided within the college and on campus. So satellite counselors also work closely with the faculty and staff in the college to better support students in need. So that’s another advantage of having the satellite.

Laura Vogt:
I like the idea that you’re working with the faculty and staff as well to see if maybe they’re seeing a pattern that maybe you can see it before or work with them on the pattern that you’re seeing with the students.

Geneé Jackson:
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It can be very helpful sort of coworking situation that helps students. And generally, of course, again, it’s not that names of students are necessarily shared unless there’s some clear reason it needs to be in students would be informed of that. But basically, at least we can get an idea of what students are dealing with and they can get an idea of how to help students that they’re working with as instructors.

Laura Vogt:
Yeah. If you’re getting a lot of students coming in with the same issue or the same concerns, then that makes it a lot easier. You don’t need to know it was necessarily “Person A said this.”

Geneé Jackson:
Yes. Exactly.

Laura Vogt:
So with everything that’s going on in the US and around the world, I know I feel overwhelmed and uncertain about the future. And I know that so many of our students do too. So do you have any tips in terms of what to do about that overwhelming feeling that some of us have?

Geneé Jackson:
Well as a person of color, the impact on our lives and the lives of family members and friends is likely much more so impacted by… Were more so impacted by COVID due to exponentially higher rates of infection, more limited economic resources, and particularly in the black, Latin X, and Native American communities, much higher infection rates on these communities. We have more risk factors. There more essential workers in our families who are being exposed to the virus. And as a result, much higher death rates. And this is on top of weekly murders of black men and women at the hands of police who are, this is currently being covered by the media, although it’s been happening for many, many years. But it’s much more to the forefront of everyone’s consciousness. And we have leadership in this country that’s hostile to black and brown people.

Geneé Jackson:
So we’re left feeling unsafe, unprotected, and with few resources. And so you layer that, we’re in unprecedented times in many ways, given the social, political, and economic conditions affecting us globally. It’s a normal reaction for us to feel anxious, fearful, sad, distracted, overwhelmed, and have periods of time where we may be much less productive. Normal reaction to an abnormal situation is the best way I could describe it. So as a student, you may be having these feelings of anxiety, and depression, overwhelm. You may have feelings of anger and frustration and find it difficult to focus on your work while you’re holding this awareness of so many other issues that are happening globally and in the US.

Geneé Jackson:
So now more than ever, it’s a time to take a step and reach out for supportive counseling to help you manage the stress and anxiety and have a place to talk about it in a way that is safe and helps you express what you need to express. And even if you don’t seek counseling, check in and offer support to peers and gain support from your peers, from friends, from family members, either one-on-one, individually, or in groups. We mentioned a lot of the groups that we are now offering at CAPS.

Geneé Jackson:
And there are also study groups, informal groups that students put together, but reaching out is the main message here. It’s really important right now to be kind and patient with yourself and with each other, because everyone is under strain and stress. Everybody’s feeling this in their own particular ways. And if we recognize that, we could be a lot of help to each other at the same time that we’re helping ourselves. But do not isolate and hang on to it by yourselves. There are services out there, there is support out there, but you’ve got to kind of reach out for it. And you can get support that way.

Laura Vogt:
I like that reminder that you have to reach out.

Geneé Jackson:
Yeah.

Laura Vogt:
Please reach out.

Geneé Jackson:
Yeah.

Laura Vogt:
And do we have any suggestions for the students that are feeling lost in this world of remote learning that we’re having and having to make those connections?

Christine Zhou:
I can speak to a little bit about that. I think it is true, when everything goes remote and it’s so easy to get lost. And I’ve had students say that lost track of time of month, and sometimes even where I am, because you’re just so confined in your room. So definitely feeling isolated and there’s not embedded structure because everything is remote. So I think it’s extremely important, in these situations, to set up a daily routine, whether it means that to get up at a certain time, eat a breakfast or do some stretches, attend classes, and break it down and maybe go out to get grocery, to have some kind of daily routine that will help you to structure your day and your week.

Christine Zhou:
And also I will say it is kind of difficult, but usually, I will tell by students, “Go out and get some fresh air,” but I understand right now it is tricky. If you can even just to step out of your apartment building or your house and try to definitely wear mask and keep social distancing. But if you can, just get out of the room and it will help you to feel a lot better. Enjoy some sunshine, you can just go grab a drink, a favorite drink you have, and make an effort to reach out. I cannot agree more with what Genee said. So easily to feel hopeless and feel overwhelmed. And then thinking that you are the only one, but the reality is that many of us are feeling this way. It is very human when we’re facing uncertainties and feeling anxious and maybe feel depressed. So talk about it and just reach out to people that you trust. The good news is that because now everything is remote and you could reach out to people even maybe on the other side of the world with people, then the distance wouldn’t create a barrier.

Christine Zhou:
I’ve had some international students who got stuck here over the summer and also in the spring Semester because they couldn’t travel back to their home and to be with families. So sometimes a student will make an effort and maybe sometimes they don’t talk to their family very often in a regular semester. But now, reaching out, having a Zoom call with families and keeping them updated. Even just to, say, share a meal together. And when I’m eating breakfast and but then I have my parents and or my cat, my dog, or my sister or grandpa. So that’s a moment to trying to connect. And so it does take a lot more effort, unfortunately, but I do think that it’s worth it, particularly given what’s going on right now. We all need a little bit of support to support ourselves, but also support each other.

Yi Du:
I also want to insert one more resource. Once again, this is our group program, especially if students are having trouble making connections or maybe it’s not easy to talk to family or friends, we have many groups this semester coming up for students. Often, people share very similar concerns. So I would really encourage you all check out our group program. I can guarantee that they are facilitated by wonderful people that I work with. And so please consider group.

Laura Vogt:
Thank you. I like that idea. Because sometimes if you’re not comfortable maybe telling everything one-on-one, hearing someone else speak on it first might make you more comfortable to share your own story. And we’ve got three different levels of students entering this year that are going to be listening to this podcast. Freshmen, transfer students, and graduate students. So I was thinking we could split up the groups and have each of you give one tip to our new students. So Christine, why don’t we start with freshmen?

Christine Zhou:
All right. So for our freshman, congratulations and welcome to Cal. And I will say start right away trying to find out where your support is and what services are available to you in case you need to pursue them later. It is give you some time, give yourself some time to learn about the system and what are the resources. This includes joining the student organization that most represents your interests, establish as many links to the department as possible via study groups, clubs, organizations. Take full advantage of the services and support offered by various programs designed for you, particularly if you’re from one of the under represented groups. And also, go connect to other people, groups, and programs. Do not isolate yourself. Particularly, I will say this year, since this is such an unusual start of your freshman year, give yourself space and time, a little bit extra room to help you to adjust. And also to be able to process if you started feeling lost or anxious, just reach out. We’re here to support you.

Laura Vogt:
And Genee. What about transfer students?

Geneé Jackson:
Well, for transfer students, you have very unique experience. You’re coming into the department in the middle of your training. And you’re going to be surrounded by other students who’ve been there for two years, and they’re familiar with everything, and they’re kind of oriented already. So understand that there’s certain kinds of support that you’re going to need that’s specific to you. You’re coming from a situation where everybody comes into these programs from situations where they’re at the top of their, like top 10%, top 5%. Everybody’s a great student. And you’re still that same great student. You’re just in a new context where you’re comparing yourself to a lot of other really great students. And so you may change your ranking and that doesn’t change you in any way. It just means that you rank in a different way.

Geneé Jackson:
So don’t let that be discouraging, but take advantage of the supports that are put in place because there are a lot of supports. The T-Prep Program is one that knows exactly what you’re needing and is there for you to help you get oriented and to help you quickly get more familiar with the rigor, with what you’re going to have to expect in your classes. And so actively participate in that program, actively participate in the other programs offered by ESS as Christine mentioned. Any of the organizations or clubs that match your interests or match your background, it’s going to help you stay connected, pick up tips, get support from your peers, learn quickly what the culture is like. And that’s what’s going to help you be successful there. So again, same message reach out and do not isolate yourself.

Laura Vogt:
And Yi, what about our graduate students?

Yi Du:
Yeah. I want to encourage graduate students to really reflect on their responsibilities and their needs. I think one thing I’m noticing a lot of my students start saying ever since the pandemic is, “Oh, I’m not working as effectively. I’m not productive. I can’t focus anymore.” Or “I can’t remember things.” But they’re placing a lot of blame on themselves without really looking at the context, which is we’re going through a lot of challenges and uncertainties as a result. And we, as humans, are being impacted. So I want to encourage graduate students to notice what you’re saying to yourself and be kind to yourself. And make your needs a priority. Because you can’t pour from an empty cup. We all know that. You have to take care of your needs before you help others. And then control where you can. And so it was so important to notice your feelings and make time to take care of your needs. And if you are not sure how or what you’re feeling, feel free to find me, come to find me, and I’ll be here to listen.

Laura Vogt:
Well, thank you, Christine, Genee, and Yi for joining us again. I would like to make our Q and A With The Counselor a regular addition to the newsletter, or if we decide to do like quick video clips with you, I know we’re going to try to figure it out. But so if anyone that’s listening has a question that you would like addressed, please email me. Again, my email address is lvogt, L-V-O-G-T@berkeley.edu. And we’re going to start getting this together and if nothing else, it’s so that I get to talk to the counselors more often because they’re awesome.

Yi Du:
Thank you. You’re awesome too.

Geneé Jackson:
Thanks Laura.

Laura Vogt:
So if anyone would like to make an appointment with our counselors, you can find the links and phone numbers on our website, coesandbox.berkeley.edu/ESS. I’ll have a shortcut on our podcast page as well. And thank you everyone for tuning into the Not So Secret Guide to Being a Berkeley Engineer. I’m looking forward to podcasting with you again next week. Thank you.