ESS 422: Majors: Changing, double and simultaneous

Laura Vogt:
Hello, and thank you for tuning into this week’s Not So Secret Guide to Being a Berkeley Engineer. My name is Laura Vogt. I’m the Associate Director of Marketing and Communications in the College of Engineering. Today, we’re going to learn about the different type of major options and what they mean. So joining us or some of my favorite folks in the student services, Sharon Mueller and Joey Wong. Welcome to the podcast.

Joey Wong:
Thank you.

Sharon Mueller:
Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Laura Vogt:
And Sharon, you’ve been with us a couple of times this summer. So welcome back again. Please remind our listeners about your role in ESS.

Sharon Mueller:
I am Sharon Mueller, the Director of Advising and Policy in ESS.

Laura Vogt:
And thank you again for joining me today. Joey, your turn. Please tell us about yourself and your role in ESS.

Joey Wong:
Yeah. Hi everyone. My name is Joey Wong. I’m one of the advisors here at ESS. I mainly advise bioengineering students, but also engineering undeclared students. So students who are exploring majors in different majors and trying to figure out what major is right for them.

Laura Vogt:
Excellent. And thank you so much for joining us. So most of our students have been admitted in specific measures. Like Joey just mentioned, he also does a small subset of our undeclared. And I know we’re already hearing about students who want to take on more, whether it be a second major or a minor, or on the other hand, change majors completely. So today I wanted to learn more about what the options are for each of these. And so let’s start with changing majors. You can change majors within the College of Engineering, or to a major outside of the college. So Sharon, can you tell us what a student needs to think about if they’re pursuing either one of those?

Sharon Mueller:
Yeah. So to change major within the College of Engineering, students, for whichever major the student is choosing, there might be different requirements. So there’s always a minimum GPA requirement, depending on which major the student wants to go into. And that can range anywhere from 2.5 to 3.3, depending on the major. And students have to complete at least one semester at Berkeley before they’re eligible to change majors. For some majors, it’s two semesters. So the criteria really change depending upon which major the student wants to change to, which is why we advise students to talk to their ESS advisor about it.

Sharon Mueller:
I know that it can be challenging sometimes to make sure that students are continuing to meet requirements for their current major, the one that they were admitted to. And it’s crucial, however, that students do stay on track for their current major, because it may not be possible to change majors depending on the GPA and criteria. Sometimes those are challenging for students to meet. So we really want students to finish at least one semester before they start thinking about this, because then they’ll just have more exposure to the classes at Berkeley. And then will probably have a better understanding of which major they might want to change to. So that’s changing within the College of Engineering.

Sharon Mueller:
As you mentioned, students could switch out of the College of Engineering and change to a major in a different college on campus. And in that case, we advise students at some point they could even start this during their first semester to go and meet with an advisor in that college because they also have minimum requirements. So students will want to make sure that they’re clear on those. A lot of those are also posted on websites. So there’s a lot of really good information on the other colleges’ websites about minimum requirements for changing into their college and into a major in their college.

Laura Vogt:
And Joey, part of the changing of major, so a lot of times, the students are taking similar courses their first semester, no matter what their major is. So that’s not something they should have to worry quite as much about in that first semester, right?

Joey Wong:
Yeah. I mean the first semester, if you’re talking about majors within the College of Engineering, the lower division type courses aren’t are going to be very, very common across the board in terms of math, chemistry, physics. Those are pretty similar throughout all the engineering majors.

Laura Vogt:
So asking them to wait a first semester isn’t necessarily going to put someone behind if they really wanted to change?

Joey Wong:
No, it shouldn’t. Our change of major criterias are put in place so that it set students up to make that change before the end of their second year. So the idea is that they’re making that change if they do pursue that, and they will have enough time and plan to finish their degree to the major that they’re changing to on time.

Sharon Mueller:
Yeah. So that’s actually an imposed deadline for students who want to switch majors within the College of Engineering. First of all, transfer students, I should clarify, are not able to change majors within the College of Engineering. But for students who are entered as freshmen, they have until the end of their sophomore year, end of their second year, to make that change. And really, that’s because you just can’t wait any longer because that’s when you see the greatest divergence in courses. So students really have to make the decision, I would say, pretty much in the freshman year or in early sophomore year, just to make sure that they’re setting themselves up also for the new major. And that’s where their ESS advisor could be really helpful as well in planning out both scenarios.

Joey Wong:
Yeah. I think majority of the students who come in and do think about changing majors do end up doing it after their first year. So some somewhere between their first and second year is when they’ll be able to apply and petition to make that change of major happen.

Laura Vogt:
Joey, do you want to talk about how the criteria are different for students who came in as undeclared in engineering?

Joey Wong:
Yeah, so the declaration process for engineering undeclared students is a bit different, because it’s technically not really a change of major. Technically, it is kind of a change of major, but theoretically, it’s not. You’re more of declaring your major because you’re coming in as engineering undeclared. So the criterias are going to be a little bit different than the change of major official criterias. And the best thing to do is if you’re having thoughts about changing major, exploring other majors, is to have a candid conversation with your ESS advisor as early as possible. Because usually with a change of major and change of college and any changes like that, the earlier you get that process in the back of your mind or thinking about it or talking about it, the usually easier it becomes. Because you don’t want to be in junior or senior year and figuring out, “Oh, no, this is not the right major for me.”

Laura Vogt:
So I feel like you’re telling me our students should talk to their advisors?

Sharon Mueller:
Yes.

Joey Wong:
Yes. That would be a good advice.

Laura Vogt:
And so Sharon, can you tell me a little bit about a joint major in how students can pursue getting one of those?

Sharon Mueller:
Yeah. So in the College of Engineering, we have six joint majors. And those are BioE MSE. So that’s one joint. EECS MSE, EECS Nuclear Engineering, Material Science & Engineering and Nuclear Engineering, Material Science & Engineering and Mechanical Engineering, and Nuclear Engineering and Mechanical Engineering. And then we also have two joint majors with the College of Chemistry, with Chemical Engineering, and those are actually managed by the College of Chemistry. So those students are in the College of Chemistry.

Sharon Mueller:
So the joint major is not all of the requirements of both majors. It’s a subset of the requirements of both majors. So it’s many of the core courses of each major, but it’s specifically addressing the intersection between those two disciplines. So for instance, a student who might be interested in EECS MSE joint major, it’s a very prescribed curriculum, which is very different than the EECS single major, which at the upper division is very open-ended. So the joint majors are pretty prescribed. They’re designed for students to finish in four years. They are really designed to capture where those two disciplines intersect with each other. And so they’re kind of specified and really only certain students might be interested in pursuing those. There’s more information about those on our website, in the undergraduate guide, under majors and minors, under academics, where students can read more about what those joint majors are.

Sharon Mueller:
So transfer students actually are allowed to pursue a joint major once they arrive at Berkeley, because no one is able to apply either from high school or from another higher education institution directly into a joint major. Because students have to be really thoughtful about whether or not that’s the right path for them. So transfer students have to decide within their first year if that’s something they want to pursue. Frankly, probably earlier, just to make sure that they’re going to still graduate in their five semesters. And for freshmen, it’s the same deadline as the change of major, because it is seen as a change of major. So the deadline is the end of sophomore year. So I would advise students who might be interested in a joint major to really read what that’s all about and to look at the curriculum, because they are all pretty prescribed sets of curriculum. But they do fulfill the need for students who want to study in the intersection of those two disciplines.

Laura Vogt:
Excellent.

Joey Wong:
So a lot of times, there’s definitely some misunderstanding with the joint majors with students. They’re thinking, “Oh, it’s a joint major. Why not do this? It sounds like it’s two.” But it’s really not. So for example, like Sharon mentioned, the EEC MSE joint major is very, very narrow in focus in terms of the intersection between EECS and MSE. So basically it’s not really CS at all. It’s more focused on upper division EE that have intersections with the material science engineering part of it. So if you’re doing EECS and you enjoy the CS part of it more, but you also enjoy MSE, it doesn’t make sense to do this joint major if you’re interested in the CS part of it.

Laura Vogt:
So that can actually bring us into, what is the difference between doing a joint major and a double major?

Joey Wong:
Yeah, so a double major is, is you’re completing both majors as prescribed for both curriculums, whereas the joint major has the courses parsed down in terms of the upper division to the intersection of those two majors for the double major. It is likely going to be a little bit more coursework at the upper division level. But it may also allow you a bit more flexibility in terms of choosing what focus or what interests you might have in the upper division level of those particular majors.

Laura Vogt:
And Sharon, can you please tell us a little bit more about what a simultaneous degree is?

Sharon Mueller:
Sure. So a simultaneous degree is when a student is pursuing a bachelor’s degree in say the College of Engineering and then another major in a different college. So any time a student has two majors that are in two different colleges, that’s called a simultaneous degree, and those are similar to double majors. Like Joey was saying, you’re following the curriculum for each of those majors. There’s not quite as much overlap as allowed when students do a simultaneous degree and they have to keep in mind also that not only are they fulfilling the requirements of both majors, but they also have to fulfill the college requirements for both colleges. And there may be some flexibility with that actually, we have a new policy about that.

Sharon Mueller:
So I would suggest students talk to their ESS advisor, but let’s say a student is pursuing a simultaneous degree in the College of Natural Resources and the College of Engineering, that student would need to make sure that they’re fulfilling the breadth requirements that both colleges require. And there’s often a ton of overlap there. And so we can really work with students to help them design their program plans so that they’re taking advantage of all the overlap that’s allowed with the college requirements. But students also with a simultaneous degree are usually granted an additional semester if they need it.

Sharon Mueller:
So that’s one advantage of the double major or simultaneous degree. We can usually grant students an additional semester. I should point out that while transfer students are not eligible for the double major, meaning they’re not eligible to have two majors in the College of Engineering, they are eligible to apply for a simultaneous degree. So once they’re admitted to engineering, they are eligible to apply to do a major in another college as well.

Laura Vogt:
Thank you. And Joey, can you tell us more about what is a minor and that can affect a student’s course of study?

Joey Wong:
Sure. A minor is usually a department will a set number of courses required for their minor. Usually somewhere between four to seven, I would say, is average number of courses for a minor and minor is really, really something that’s kind of extra supplemental that students would want to take on if they find interest in that topic or subject. What we often see is students come in freshmen first semester and they say, “Oh, I want to minor in this without having taken a single course in that subject and topic.” And that’s ideally not what we want to see.

Joey Wong:
Usually, we want students develop their interests in the minor organically, whether it’s starting off in your first year or second year taking some of these lower division courses in this minor department and then growing that interest and then declaring the minor that makes, that makes the process a little bit more, I guess, rewarding, I think, than coming in and saying, “I want to minor in this.” So the general advice is don’t minor in something to minor in something you first have to find that interest, whether it’s art practice, whether it’s economics, whether it’s whatever it may be, take a class or two in that subject or topic. And if you feel like you’re really interested in that, and you feel like that will supplement your course of study or major well, then you should pursue and take more courses in that.

Sharon Mueller:
Yeah. And some minors have admission requirements. So they might even require students to do one or two lower division courses. And they might even require a GPA for students to qualify for the minor. And also I should point out that we don’t give extra time for a minor. So students just need to fit it in to the curriculum, the plan that they’re pursuing. And some departments also have a deadline by which students have to declare the minor, but it’s late. It’s like the semester before they graduate. So they have a lot of time to decide. And sometimes, students find that the minor might be too limiting. Maybe they like political science, but maybe they don’t want to be limited to the courses that they have to take for the minor. And they might just want to take more political science courses. And that’s fine too. So for some students, we always say, “If the minor fits in really well with your interests, then go for it. But if not, don’t, like Joey was saying, don’t get one just for the sake of having one.”

Joey Wong:
And there are also multiple minor type programs out there. I believe summer session has a summer minor that they offer for different departments and majors. And then you can earn a minor within one or two summers of coursework, but it really depends on if you’re interested in those topics and subjects. And some minors also have teaching credentials like the Cal Teach Minor that’s kind of associated with it and linked with it. So we have an assortment of areas that you could minor in. So it’s best first to explore and see what your interests might be. And then go from there.

Laura Vogt:
Is there a place online for Berkeley that talks about all the minors that are available?

Sharon Mueller:
Yeah. The Berkeley Academic Guide, actually. Students can go there and you can narrow the search by minor. So if you just go to Berkeley Academic Guide and then click on the undergraduate button and degree programs, you can actually break those down into minors. I see, Joey, there’s even a breakdown for summer minors only. So if you just click on that, you can see all the minors across campus that are offered, if you click on it, all the details about that minor.

Laura Vogt:
They might also be interested in doing something like we’ve got a couple of certificate programs, like the Jacobs Design.

Sharon Mueller:
That’s right. We do.

Laura Vogt:
There’s one for an entrepreneurship, I believe.

Sharon Mueller:
Yes. And students often will pursue those certificates too. So yeah, there are actually a lot of different options for students who want to supplement their undergraduate degree. And they might find, depending on their engineering major, that adding something in like this might just be a little too much and they might just want to dabble and take some courses of interest in different areas. But if they want a concentrated area of study, those are good options, minors and certificates.

Laura Vogt:
So like we said earlier, it’s really important to start conversations with your engineering student services advisor if you want to discuss either changing your major, or getting a joint major, or pursuing an additional one. I know this summer, we’re still trying to get students just enrolled in classes and figure out what’s happening in a semester. So when do you think is the best time for them to start reaching out for that appointment about their major specifically?

Sharon Mueller:
I would say, and Joey, you can jump in here too, but I would say give yourself a semester. If you’re thinking about changing into a major that has specific minimum course requirements, for instance, EECS has certain courses you have to take in order to qualify. You’ll actually want to have that conversation with your advisor before you enroll in your Spring classes. So probably in October. The other majors, you’re usually going to be taking the similar courses, as Joey mentioned, for preparing for those majors. So if you’re interested in a major outside of EECS, you could even wait until the Spring semester, but you also want to make sure that you’re staying on track with your current major, just in case. Sometimes students change their minds. Sometimes they get in that first course for that major and say, “Oh, this wasn’t really what I thought it was. I think I’m going to stay where I am.” So it’s just important to be flexible, but also hash out a plan with their ESS advisor.

Laura Vogt:
And is there anything I didn’t ask about the majors, and changing, and finding what really is going to be your niche for while you’re here at Berkeley?

Sharon Mueller:
I will say there’s a class in the Fall. And almost all of the engineering undeclared students take it. It’s called Engineering 92. And Joey, there is no restriction on enrollment for that class, right?

Joey Wong:
No, anyone who is interested should be able to take it. It’s a one unit seminar, Engineering 92, offered Mondays four to five in the afternoon. So if your schedule allows and you’re considering exploring, and thinking about other majors, then Engineering 92 is a good seminar to check out.

Sharon Mueller:
Yeah. And as I understand it’s about one hour a week. And it’s a different faculty who come in and talk about their areas of discipline and people from industry as well talk about what they’re doing with their degrees. So for students who are feeling like they know they want engineering, but they’re not quite sure if they’re in the right major, they are welcomed to take that class. It’s a good class for discovery and it might open some other opportunities up for them.

Laura Vogt:
Well, thank you both so much for joining me today.

Sharon Mueller:
You’re welcome. My pleasure.

Laura Vogt:
Thank you everyone for tuning in to this, our fourth season of the Not So Secret Guide to Being a Berkeley Engineer. I look forward to bringing us back for a fifth season next year, but until then, have an awesome school year. Bye.