ESS 419: EOP resources & how to be resilient

Laura Vogt:
Hello! On this week’s episode of the (Not So) Secret Guide to Being a Berkeley Engineer, we’re introducing two new folks to the podcast. I’m happy because we’re getting to branch out to other resources and partner offices on campus. As before, I’m your host, Laura Vogt, the Associate Director of Marketing and Communications in the College of Engineering. This week’s guests are Yuki Burton from the Educational Opportunity Program, and Jose Jasso, one of our Berkeley Engineering students who just graduated with a BS in Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences. So, welcome and thank you both for being here today. So, let’s start with getting to know you better. Yuki, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your role at UC Berkeley and about the Educational Opportunity Program?

Yuki Burton:
Sure. Thanks so much, Laura, first of all, just for inviting us and creating this space. I think this is such a timely conversation, especially all of the challenges going on in our world right now. So, my name is Yuki Burton, I currently serve as the Assistant Director in the Educational Opportunity Program or EOP on campus. EOP serves close to 12,000 undergraduate students who are eligible for our services. That means they fall in the category of one of these three, so being first generation, low income or historically underrepresented. So, a big charge in our wheelhouse is really just academic counseling and holistic support for the students to and through the university.

Yuki Burton:
That can look like a variety of different things, whether it’s financial aid assistance, mental health support, supporting students in building community and belonging on campus. I really see my role as EOP counselor as an advocate. My goal is to support the student in all facets of their life, whether it’s with family, whether it’s finances, basic needs. So, we really try to assist students in just maximizing their resources and trying to help build a roadmap towards success during their time at UC Berkeley. I’m a proud UC Berkeley alum and also an EOP alum. So, the work is really special to a lot of my values and some of my own lived experiences. So, happy to be in this capacity and super happy to be with one of my favorite EOP students, R2R legends, Jasso.

Laura Vogt:
So, Yuki, one of the programs that we’re going to be talking about a lot is R2R. Can you tell us a little bit more about what that is?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, so R2R stands for The Road 2 Resiliency: Striving Towards Success in Overcoming Academic Probation, but that’s a mouthful. So, we call it R2R for short. This is a holistic retention program that was created in 2017 to support EOP students experiencing academic difficulty. So, one thing that I saw time and time again as an academic counselor is that so many EOP students were coming to us one on one. They thought they were the only person experiencing academic probation, like the only person who received a letter on campus, right? It’s such an isolating experience, understandably so.

Yuki Burton:
People don’t just go around waving their transcripts around Upper Sproul or anything like that. But there was just such a need for an honest and brave community space where students could talk about the stigma of academic probation, the shame, and connect with resources and really have a safe space to ask for that help. So, it started as a seminar that students can take for units and for a letter grade. It’s really blossomed into a full retention program. So, we were able to institutionalize new EOP position, a degree completion counselor, who facilitates the seminar and also host monthly workshop series as well as individual academic counseling and holistic support for the students.

Yuki Burton:
So, if you are an EOP student experiencing academic challenges, if you’re looking for community to check in with folks, please tap in with R2R. If you’re not able to join the seminar, you can definitely sign up for the workshops or connect with some of the community events. But again, I think it’s just another way to step outside of your comfort zone to connect with those who are going through that same struggle just as you are. You’ll be more than surprised to hear that there’s other students who can relate to you and kind of having a sense of what it’s like to walk in your shoes as well. So, highly encourage R2R if you’re on academic probation.

Laura Vogt:
Well, thank you so much for coming to get today. I’m really excited again, like I said, that we’re branching out and getting to meet new folks on campus. Jasso, it’s your turn. So, please introduce yourself and perhaps share about any student organizations or activities that you’re part of at Berkeley.

Jose Jasso:
So yeah, my name is Jose Jasso. Yes, like you just mentioned, I just recently graduated from Berkeley with a BS in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science. I am an R2R alum, like Yuki said. I’m from Norwalk, California, which is somewhere in Southeast LA. While I was at Berkeley, I was mainly involved with my fraternity, which is named Gamma Zeta Alpha, which is a Latino-interest fraternity. I was also partly involved with HES, which stands for Hispanic Engineers and Scientists, which is like an org that caters to how Latinx folks who are in the STEM field.

Laura Vogt:
Well, excellent. Thank you so much for being here today. Congratulations on successfully completing the BS program. I know, it is an intense program and just congratulations.

Jose Jasso:
Thank you. Thank you very much.

Laura Vogt:
So, Jasso, let’s start with you and talk about your story of resilience as a Berkeley engineering student. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Jose Jasso:
Yeah, well, I mean, let me see. Where do I start? Yeah, I mean, that first transition to Berkeley was I’m the oldest in my family, the first one to leave home for college, for university. I had no idea what was going to happen, what it was going to be like here. I remember those first couple years, it was very tough. The classes were tough, I took all those lower diff math, the Math 1A, 1B, all those. I just stuck my head down and just went through the classes and tried as hard as I could. I knew it wasn’t going to be the same as it was in high school for me, but I don’t know it’s going to be that tough.

Jose Jasso:
The imposter syndrome was real at the time. But I made it through those first couple of years. I passed all my classes on, I did fine, but it started to wear down on me. I was noticing that. So, I think my fall semester of my third year is when I had a lot more difficulty with the class. I actually ended up failing it. When that happened, I was immediately put on subject to dismissal, but fortunately, then put on academic probation, because I appealed for it. So, it was stressful, but I was glad that I was still going to be at Berkeley and given the chance to stay here and complete my degree.

Jose Jasso:
That’s when actually an email from HES that I got mentioned the R2R program. So, I looked into it, and I was like, “Okay, this is something that I probably should go for.” I applied for it. Very fortunately and thankfully, I was granted a chance to be part of the seminar. In that course, I started learning a lot about why I got to the point that I got or what got me here. I did a lot of reflecting in it and a lot of self-learning. You learn all the tips that you learn to try to get out of AP, but I feel like I learned a lot of just about myself and what it takes to be resilient and all that. I wasn’t too discouraged once I was in AP.

Jose Jasso:
I was trying very hard in my classes, but just something wasn’t clicking. I was trying harder than I had ever tried. Even my first couple years, I had harder classes back then, I had all the lower diffs, but just things weren’t clicking for me. I was actually kind of confused. I was like, “I’m studying even harder. I’m going off these hours more. I’m doing all the things that you’re supposed to be doing, but it’s just my brains not retaining any information on that. I’m walking to the midterms, and I’m forgetting everything.”

Jose Jasso:
I remember meeting with Yuki. Actually, I remember the question, she was like, “Jasso, are you tired?” That took me a while to process, because at that point, I had already done pretty much five, six semesters because I was working and taking classes every semester and summer. So, I guess my body was just starting to break down on me and I’m starting to get a little burnt out. Close to the end of the semester is when I probably had to make the hardest decision of my life at the point and withdraw for the semester.

Jose Jasso:
Because I was talking to Yuki and I was talking to Brian Jones at the time who was my college advisor, and I knew what was going to happen if I did that. I knew I had to take a semester off right away too. I remember talking to Yuki. I remember coming to the conclusion that that was probably the best choice for me. Yeah, I mean, I did that. I took a break, left, didn’t have to worry about classes for a while, came back. It was like, I was a brand-new Jasso, came in with renewed energy. I was doing the same things that I was learning from R2R, and everything started clicking. I was very fortunate to now say that I got my degree and I graduated.

Laura Vogt:
As you took that time away, what did you do while you’re away to help you reset and to mentally fix that burnout that you were feeling?

Jose Jasso:
Yeah, I did a lot of things. I did a lot of things. I took some time to reflect on my holistic health, what it could have been, mentally, spiritually, physically, everything. So, number one, I had more types of sleep now. I fixed my sleeping schedule, sleeping seven, eight, nine hours a day now. Second, I began exercising more. Third, just like all these things, I started cooking meals for myself all the time now. I even had time to start journaling, to learn how to budget my money, all these things that I say to myself that I didn’t have time for, because of the workload I had for classes and working on campus and all that. Just all these things that I wouldn’t really have much time for, made much time for that I wanted to work off for myself. I even started reading for fun again, which I hadn’t done since I got to Berkeley.

Laura Vogt:
So, when you came back, after you had started building those habits to build that time and for your self-care, how did you incorporate that into your new schedule when you got back on campus?

Jose Jasso:
I did the best I could to transform mostly all of that that I had done, because I knew how important it was to my overall well-being. I knew that I wasn’t going to be sacrificing sleep for that much anymore. I knew that to me, at that point, I really knew that sleep was the number one priority for me in having a good day, a good week, getting a lot of work done on a day.

Jose Jasso:
So, I knew, I’m going to sleep my seven, eight hours, even if I couldn’t get as much work done as I could that night, because I knew now that that was important for me. Because being an engineering student, you get those stereotypes that there’s no time for sleep, there’s no time to eat, there’s no time for exercise, there’s no time to go out, to do anything. Just work, work, work, work, work. But sometimes we got to take a step back and see what is important really for your well-being and that translates to your academics.

Laura Vogt:
Now that you’re graduated from Berkeley, are you able to pull those same habits and decisions that you had made before into your current life and how you’re living now?

Jose Jasso:
Yeah, I’ve been trying to keep on developing those habits that I had been developing once I took my break and was still in my last couple years. I even journal and plan almost every day, practice mindfulness, take a 10, 15 minutes a day and just breathe, listen to music do something to get away from all the hecticness.

Laura Vogt:
So, while you were at Berkeley, you had talked about RTR and what amazing resources that you received through Yuki and other folks like that. So, what would you tell people about the resources and how do you find them and how can they use those resources?

Jose Jasso:
Well, I’m specifically talking about R2R. That was a very big thing for me. I don’t think I probably would have graduated if I didn’t get to R2R honestly. I’m very thankful to have gone into one, because it was the only place that I could go to where I felt… Because the whole thing was just like a big shame and embarrassment that I felt that I couldn’t talk to anyone about. I remember that first class we had there, and everyone’s just very quiet. No one wants to address the elephant in the room. I think Yuki or I don’t know if it was Angel or Miggy who was like, “Okay, you all know why you’re here. It’s okay. You can talk about it.” A little bit of laughter broke out.

Jose Jasso:
After that, it was smooth sailing. I made a lot of friends in there that I still talked to until this day and see that they’re doing well and also graduating. As far as resources, I learned a lot of just really focusing on what it is inside of you, your mental health, your spiritual health, all that. I remember, just generally, when we had to make journal entries for the seminar, I really took my time to reflect, because I’ve never done stuff like that. I thought it was just because the classes were too hard for me, and that was it. But I knew after that that there was a lot of stuff going on that was affecting the way I was doing in my classes and that I had to work on to.

Laura Vogt:
What would you share with students who find themselves that are struggling or in the same position that you were in?

Jose Jasso:
The first thing that they have to know, that they should know is that they belong here, they’re in Berkeley for a reason. I know that imposter syndrome gets real bad at times, but you might have your doubts at time. But trust me, you belong here. You made it to Berkeley for a reason. Second of all, don’t be so hard on yourself. At least for myself, I would tend to isolate when things got hard.

Jose Jasso:
I would think that “Got to put my head down and keep working,” then everything just worked out. But sometimes you just need to relax and ask someone for help. It’s okay to actually relax and rest. It’s good for you. It’s okay to take a couple hours off or a night off of study or even a whole day and not have to look at your work if it means that you’ll be able to come back more energized and focused for the week or for the next few days.

Laura Vogt:
I wanted to talk a little bit about how you created a community at Berkeley engineering, and even more broadly at Berkeley. What steps did you take to make that family here at Berkeley?

Jose Jasso:
Well, I really had to put myself out there. I had to really get out of my comfort zone and just be out there, especially with the R2R thing, I had to be like, “Okay, this is what you have to do.” Being at Berkeley and even at Berkeley Engineering, it can be very intimidating to go up to students or go up to faculty and ask about anything or even try to join in when working. But we’re all here for the same goals. We’re all pretty much willing to help each other out, and that’s what I did.

Jose Jasso:
I remember going to one of my classes. I went to [inaudible 00:18:57] party, and I saw a group of girls and a couple guys. I didn’t know anyone in the class. I knew that if I was there alone, the class was going to be very tough. So, I knew that I had to find me a study group or something to work on homework. I remember going up to them and be like, “Oh, are you guys working on number three?” They’re like, “Yes,” and all that and ended up joining the Facebook group for the class. And then now they’re actually one of my best friends. I talked to them every day, and we took all those classes the last few semesters together. Without them, I probably wouldn’t have been able to graduate either, but it just really took me getting out there and getting out of my comfort zone.

Laura Vogt:
Well, excellent. Thank you so much for sharing with us. I want to bring Yuki in and talk a little bit more about some of the things that, Jasso, you’ve touched on, which is about how resilience isn’t necessarily just pushing through. So, I want to start with what might sound like a simple question, but I know it’s nuanced depending on the student, but what does resilience mean or look like especially if it isn’t just pushing through?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, thank you so much, Laura. Thank you, Jasso. It was just such a proud moment hearing you share all those wisdoms and just how all of it is sticking now. I think you know, Jasso and sharing his story really embodies so much of what we in EOP talking about resilience as and how we reconceptualize it. I think for a lot of students, being successful at Berkeley or being a strong student means that autopilot that Jasso was mentioning, right, the pushing through. Like he said, I put my head down, and I’m just double down on it. Maybe if I stay up longer, if I work harder, if I put more hours in, I’ll get the end outcome.

Yuki Burton:
But I think a lot of our students end up self-sabotaging, because they’re doing more of what isn’t working versus exploring new avenues and new outlets that could work and be more sustainable. So, I think we really need to kind of disrupt that culture at Berkeley, disrupt that culture of survival and think about how do we reconceptualize resilience as a holistic harmony between not just our academic success, right? We know that’s the end goal. Students are coming here for a degree at a prestigious university, but also, where does my basic needs fit in that? Where does my emotional wellness fit in that? Where’s my mental health in this wheelhouse as well?

Yuki Burton:
I think for so many of our EOP students, we come from backgrounds where survival was a systemic response, right? So many of our EOP students are caretakers. They are financial providers before and after and during Berkeley, right? That doesn’t end once you get admitted. They have real life responsibilities that only get exacerbated when they get to the university. I think for so many students that I work with, it’s about helping them take a step back and think about success and resilience as overcoming adversity, but also thinking about it in a way that is sustainable and conducive to my holistic needs. There’s a real difference between pausing and stopping.

Yuki Burton:
I hear so many students who are like, “I can’t stop. I can’t give up,” right? There’s so much social pressure and family pressure on our students, understandably so, right? Imagine being the first in your family to navigate this prestigious university. You have the golden ticket out the hood. Everyone’s looking at you. Every time you come home for winter break, everyone’s asking you like, “What’s next? What are you going to do?” Right? There’s all this pressure. But I think for so many of our students, they think that taking care of themselves compromises the end goal of academic success. So, how do we see them as in conjunction and in alignment?

Yuki Burton:
I think Jasso’s story just embodies that so beautifully, right? He could have pushed through. I think we were like a week before the semester ended, Jasso, and he came to my office. Jasso was someone I was never worried about. You should have seen his color-coded notebook. He had all the note taking skills, going to office. He was the star student. I was like, “Oh, he’s going to be great, he’ll be fine.” He came to me, I didn’t push this idea to him. He came to me and said, “I know I could finish. I could finish out finals next week, but if I do, what will I be sacrificing or compromising?”

Yuki Burton:
I was just so blown away like, “Whoa, if that was not wisdom and maturity and growth,” because he probably could have cleared probation and going on, but he would have been even more burnt out, tired, exhausted, unhappy, disconnected, right? So I think the resilience really is in being honest with yourself and assessing your needs in that moment, taking yourself off that autopilot and survival mode, and thinking about, “Am I making these decisions and choices out of a place from fear and anxiety, that survival; or am I making it from a place of healing, from a place of balance, from a place of community?” Right?

Yuki Burton:
For so many of us EOP folks, that means reconciling some of the trauma that we might have come with or some of the survival tactics that we need to unlearn and gain new skills and new communities to be in. But I think resilience really needs to look different in order for us to sustain especially our marginalized student populations, because I see way too many students burning out. To me, you can cross the stage. But if you are burnt out, if you’re a zombie, if you’re tired, if you’re unhappy, if you’re depressed, that’s not success to me, right? Because I hope that your Berkeley degree is the launching pad to something even greater and even better than what you experienced in your couple years at UC Berkeley.

Laura Vogt:
Part of it I would think is if you’re feeling any of those things, you’re not necessarily retaining the knowledge that you’re staying up all hours to remember.

Yuki Burton:
Yes, yeah. I have so many students who come to me and they’re like, “I’m in Chem 1A. I have all these flashcards. I’ve been studying.” I see them at the SLC. I know they’re putting the work in, but sometimes it’s about working smarter and not harder. So, if you’re not retaining the information, if you’re blanking on the exam, because you have test taking anxiety, but maybe you don’t even know that that’s a thing or you don’t know how that’s impacting you, right? How do we get really curious about the student needs and make sure that they have spaciousness for that self-reflection to investigate, “What is actually happening? What is impacting me right now?” versus just feeling like it’s a linear path and they just have to move from semester to semester to semester, so?

Laura Vogt:
I think it’s interesting that one of the things that Jasso said was he remembered the simple question of “Are you tired?” Just starting with something really basic and having that be a jumping off point of reevaluating what’s happening.

Yuki Burton:
Absolutely. I think just the basic humanity that we overlook, sometimes, right? We go straight from like, “Alright, what do you need to declare?” or “How’s this midterm? What percentage? How much is left for your grade?” We go to all those technical pieces, totally missed over all these connection opportunities that you are a student. You are a student, you have a family. You might have just off the call with a family member and got some hard news. You’re balancing all these different things. So, something in EOP that we’re so committed to is that human relationship and how do we maintain that, because for so many of our students, they don’t get that inside the classroom or when they’re walking through Sproul, right?

Yuki Burton:
So, we also remind them of their humanity, because I think that’s part of that survival experience is students just start to numb out and just go from thing to thing to thing. I tell my students all the time, “Do not come to my office and brag about all-nighter, because that does not impress me.” But Jasso spoke to it, right? That’s the culture, especially in STEM, right? I have students who come to me like, “Yeah, I pulled my first all-nighter. I’ve been studying for eight hours straight. I haven’t even eaten today.” It’s like, “That’s not cool.” Can we break that myth that that is what success at Berkeley looks like? I think there’s so much competition that breeds that unhealthiness. All that does it lead you to burn out.

Laura Vogt:
Definitely. So, is there a way for students to evaluate why they’re here and what they want to accomplish without becoming overwhelmed? Because I think that can also lead to some of that competition with yourself of, “Okay, I’ve got all these things that I want to accomplish.”

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, I really encourage students to create space to prioritize self-reflection and whatever that looks like. I know for a lot of our students that might seem too warm and fluffy or too removed, but it is so powerful. I think Jasso shared some of it too. In our seminar in EOP, it’s part of your grade that you do weekly journal reflections. It’s not just like, “Dear, diary. Today, I did…” It’s like some deep, deep, healing questions that we’re posing to students to remind them again of their humanity, to remind them of the full spectrum of emotions that they’re experiencing as a student.

Yuki Burton:
I think our students are so bogged down with the academic rigor, with the competition, with the prestige of Berkeley that they start to compartmentalize themselves. So, family drama, stay way over here. Oh, finances, I don’t know how I’m getting my next meal. We’re going to tuck that over there. I’m just going to focus on my midterm or my next quiz, right? So how do we use self-reflection as an opportunity to connect all of those pieces and see how they really need to be in harmony with each other for us to be successful. So, that could be journaling. It could be counseling sessions. It could be checking in with EOP.

Yuki Burton:
Oftentimes, my students before we go into whatever question or issue they have about academics, I just want to know like, “How’s your day? How’s your mom doing? What did you eat today?” I asked my students that very often, especially with how basic needs issues are just exacerbating right now. What did you eat today? What do you have for lunch? Oh, it’s 3:00, you haven’t eaten? Okay, let’s go for a walk. Let’s go get you some food. We could talk about whatever brought you in today. But again, how do we root ourselves in that humanity?

Yuki Burton:
Again, I think just speaking to that issue of burnout, through self-reflection, how do you take a step back and identify “What are my behaviors? What are my choices? What are my actions? What’s working for me? What’s maybe not working as effectively?” Because I think a lot of our students have to think about tools and approaches that may be served themselves in a previous season. So, that could have been at my community college. “This is how I approached it,” or “This is how I studied at high school. I was a straight A, it just came to me X, Y and Z.” But colleges, it’s a level up. It’s an added layer of expectations and rigor.

Yuki Burton:
So, for some students, it’s just looking at their toolkit and saying, “Alright, that worked for you then, I’m going to connect you with an academic coach at the Student Learning Center or at ESS.” Connect with them resources, because I think our students start to internalize it as, “Oh, I’m not smart enough. I’m not good enough, I can’t make it.” It’s like, “No, you have it. We just need to transform those tools and see how it adapts to your new environment.” Seasons change. You have to figure out, “What was working for me then, maybe it’s not as effective now, but maybe we can transform it and still have it lead to my success at Berkeley.”

Laura Vogt:
What would be the first thing that you tell a student that needs to show themselves some self-compassion? What would be the first step?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah. Self-compassion, that’s a big one. Because I think so many of our students, self-compassion is a privilege and a luxury, right? When you’re coming from a first-gen, low-income background, when you have so many responsibilities that fall on you, you’re used to being the helper. You’re not used to getting the help. So, I think there’s a lot of shame and stigma that comes with learning to ask for help and learning to afford yourself that self-compassion. For a lot of students that I’ve worked with, I think it’s about how do we deconstruct what vulnerability means. I think a lot of our students vulnerability is seen as weakness, right? It means that you didn’t know the answer, you didn’t have enough.

Yuki Burton:
So, all these inner critic thoughts start to creep up, and then it amplifies the imposter syndrome, right? “You didn’t know that? You didn’t get that question right? You had to go to the SLC, what?” You were an AP this or AP that. So, I think self-compassion is really helping to identify the voices and quiet some of that noise and asking, “Is this voice serving me? Is it moving me closer to my goals; or is it making me feel a lot more worse about where I’m at, what some of my needs are?”

Yuki Burton:
I think for a lot of EOP students, I’ll pose the question of like, “Well, who helps to helper?” Right? Everybody falls back on you. That’s a whole lot of pressure. Who do you lean back on? Who’s in your support system? Because I think it’s important for our students to know that it’s okay not to know what you don’t know, right? That’s the whole synopsis of being first generation. You’re literally building a bike while you’re riding it, and then the bike’s on fire. And then you’re panicking and there’s all this stress and pressure.

Yuki Burton:
But one thing I will offer to my students, especially in R2R seminar, is as you hear that imposter syndrome voice coming up or that inner critic voice starting to whisper limitations and judgments into your ear, how do we think about our first draft thoughts and second draft thoughts? So, this was a tool that we gained from our course text in R2R Brené Brown’s Rising Strong. She talks about it so beautifully as the story that I’m telling myself, that’s the preface. So, okay, this doesn’t have to be a permanent defining thought. The story that I’m telling myself is that “I should have studied harder, I should have known this answer. I’m not good enough,” right?

Yuki Burton:
So that’s our starting point, and then how do we interrogate it further? Is this my voice? Is this imposter syndrome? Is this the voice of a hater? What? Where does all that fun? What is my true voice to make myself really move closer to the success I know that I’m capable of? So really moving away from the internalization and the self-destruction and really thinking about, “How do I give myself grace? How do I give myself compassion? How do I give myself spaciousness?” Because I think so many of our students see that… I think they see self-compassion in its first form as like, “I’m being too easy on myself,” or “No, that’s an excuse.”

Yuki Burton:
I have students tell me that all the time. “I don’t want to make an excuse for why I didn’t get…” I’m like, “Not an excuse. It’s just a reason. It’s a real thing. You had a health crisis that semester,” or “Your parents were going through X, Y, and Z.” So, I think it’s about reconceptualizing, “Who benefits from my inner critic? Who benefits from my self-compassion?” I think would be the best way that I would just synthesize that.

Laura Vogt:
How do you think students should set expectations of success or create new perspectives of success?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah. Success is interesting, because it’s an interesting concept, very loaded. Whose success? Who’s defining it for you? Who does it benefit, right? So, I think especially for our EOP students, our students of color at Berkeley, we really have to first take a step back and say, “Whose definition am I operating from?” Because a lot of times, success in higher education, success at predominately White institutions, it’s rooted in colonialism and White supremacy and patriarchy and capitalism, right, all these intersecting factors that act as ceilings and limitations for our students.

Yuki Burton:
So, I think we have to really tap into our communal definition of “What does success look like for me?” Success does not just have to be solely based on productivity or what I can contribute to UC Berkeley or a test score or a curve, especially during a pandemic, especially during a racial uprising, especially during an economic downturn, right? There’s all these other layers added to this fall semester, but how do we think about success comprehensively, right? My academic success is always attached to my basic needs, to my mental health, to my personal wellness, to the well-being of my family and my loved ones, right? That is not just a transcript or a test score. That’s a very one-dimensional way to think about success.

Yuki Burton:
The students that I’ve seen who have been the most successful, again, successful in terms of holistic success, are those who get it. It clicks for them at some point during their Berkeley journey, where it’s like, “Making sure that I eat three times a day is just as important as me going to office hours or me going to this midterm review.” So, really seeing it as in harmony and not in juxtaposition, because I think sometimes students feel like they have to sacrifice their basic needs to reach success when really, they go in the same direction.

Laura Vogt:
We started talking about all these different layers of what’s happening in the world right now. So, given the Black Lives Matter Movement and recent coverage of the police brutality incidents, we know that our students have been and are affected. So, what advice would you recommend for students that are being affected by this?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, I think, first and foremost, we have to take care of our mental health. It has been such an exhausting year. There have been such real psychological effects of everything that is going on that we’re seeing on social media, on the news, and our neighborhoods, on our campus, right? It’s on a national level, but it’s also very close to home. For a lot of our students, it’s not anything new to be honest, right? It’s just that it’s being recorded or that it’s getting all this media attention.

Yuki Burton:
So, I really encourage, especially those of us within the Black community, to really prioritize your mental health, to connect in community, to find spaces where your lived experiences are validated and that you can talk through that, because being socially distant, that’s an added layer of isolation, an added layer of depression, an added layer of anxiety. I think we also have to be honest about how a lot of these issues and conversations are not far removed from the UC Berkeley experience for a lot of our students and how that’s happening on our campus.

Yuki Burton:
So, I really, really encourage folks to prioritize their wellness even more, to tap in with community. The African American Student Development Office and the Fannie Lou Hamer Black Resource Center, they’re doing phenomenal work for our students and staff and faculty within the Black community.

Yuki Burton:
Also, I really empower and encourage our students to mobilize and get organized, right? So many of the advancements that are happening within the Black community on our campus today are direct impacts of organizing efforts from the Black Student Union. So, the African American Initiative, the Black Resource Center, that was all results of students who were like, “I don’t like these conditions, this isn’t working for us.” They decided to change it, right? So just the power in the student organizing and activism.

Yuki Burton:
I would say for non-Black folks who don’t identify with that struggle directly, I think this is a real, honest moment to interrogate your own anti-Blackness for all of us, right? That’s something that we all internalized and how do we deconstruct that and leverage your positionality, leverage your power on campus to disrupt White supremacy and take that commitment towards anti-racism. It’s not enough to not be racist, but how do we actively engage in that on campus, whether that’s in the classroom, in student orgs, in meeting spaces? Because it’s a critical moment. I think this will be a really defining moment in our history as well if we tend to these wounds and heal them in a way that they should have been healed years ago.

Laura Vogt:
We also have a lot of anti-immigration sentiment that has been building. So, can you tell us about the resources for undocumented students on campus?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, so EOP partners very closely with the Undocumented Student Program or USP. They have been doing some incredible, incredible work, really just creating critical resources for undocumented student community. Their website is undocu.berkeley.edu. There you’ll see the range of comprehensive services from academic counseling. They offer financial assistance and emergency grants, free mental health support. So, they have two licensed psychologists that offer services to students individually and also in group settings. And then they also have free legal support as well.

Yuki Burton:
So, there’s a range of different community support systems, student groups that students can interact with. So, I highly encourage folks to check out the Undocumented Student Program and tap in with some of their support as well during these really, really challenging times.

Laura Vogt:
Where should students start looking for resources and support outside of EOP or even just with EOP? What’s the best way for them to start getting it?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, I think that’s a great question. I think, getting support can feel overwhelming for a lot of students. It’s like, “Where do I start? What’s the first step? Who do I call?” So, I would encourage students if any of this conversation that we’re talking about is resonating with you, if you’re like, “Wow, okay. I think I need to connect with someone or talk with someone,” come check in with us at EOP. So, we offer same-day appointments. We offer pre-scheduled appointments. If you just go to our website, eop.berkeley.edu, it’ll show you all of the services that we’re offering for the fall semester.

Yuki Burton:
Sometimes it just starts with that one conversation. You can be honest and truthful. We don’t expect you to come in with a blueprint plan of like, “This is my goal. This is what I need support with.” Again, sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know. That’s what our role is, to sit alongside you and walk alongside you in this journey, to help outline what your needs are and connect you with different campus resources within EOP, but also beyond EOP to make sure that you feel supported and loved during your journey.

Laura Vogt:
It’s all available virtually this semester, right?

Yuki Burton:
Correct. Yeah, all virtual.

Laura Vogt:
So, finding a community for underrepresented and first-gen students can prove to be challenging at Berkeley, especially in the College of Engineering. So, what advice do you have for students who need to find support and finding those connections and creating those relationships?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, well, first, I would say as a self-identified introvert, I totally resonate with this question, because even when we were in person, sometimes that can be hard for us to reach out to go to a community event when you don’t know anybody, to join an organization. So, it’s just amplified even now that we’re all physically disconnected. But I really encourage anyone listening to this if you’re thinking about how community can be of service to you in the semester, how you’re looking to build those connection points, to think about it as one growth moment outside of your comfort zone, right?

Yuki Burton:
A lot of students, their response to, “Oh, have you thought about this, or do you want to explore this group?” It’s like, “Yeah, but I don’t know. It’d be awkward. I’m not going to know anybody there.” Those are valid reasons, right? It’s hard. Berkeley could be such a big place. How do you reframe that and look at it as an opportunity to stretch yourself outside of your comfort zone? Because your comfort zone is great, it’s warm, it’s fuzzy, it’s cuddly, it’s all those great things, but not a lot of growth happens there. So, how do we stretch it even just one footstep out, two footsteps out, and thinking about even in our digital realm, right? Is that sending somebody a chat on Zoom to form a study group? Is it reaching out to a professor for office hours? Is it joining a community workshop that we’re hosting?

Yuki Burton:
So even just one commitment that can start to kind of create that ripple effect moving forward, but you have to push yourself. You have to be committed to that growth, because no one’s going to come knocking on your door, right? So, I think that’s part of the independence that also comes with the college experience as well. And then just leveraging your resources, connecting with folks so that you can tag team and go to an event together; or, if you have at least one friend from EOP that you know within the study group, maybe it makes it a little more manageable.

Laura Vogt:
Yeah, it’s kind of building on what Jasso said earlier that he put himself out there.

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, yeah. And then he was pleasantly surprised, right? I think that’s again part of the inner critic that creeps up is like, “Oh, I’m going to reach out and they’re going to think I’m not smart enough to be a part of their study group or they’re not going to want to sit with me,” right? We create all these reasons why it’s not going to work, instead of thinking about all the opportunities that that might create and open. He shared those are some of his closest friends until this day, and what if he would have self-selected out of that opportunity. So, don’t self-select, push yourself out. Even if it’s one commitment each week, all of that will build up and it’ll be so much more comfortable and feasible the next time as well.

Laura Vogt:
I definitely think putting yourself out there is something you need practice with. The only way you’re going to get practice is by doing it.

Yuki Burton:
Yes, exactly.

Laura Vogt:
So, are there any EOP workshops coming up that you want to tell us about or share?

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, so we have a couple coming up. If you go to our website, again, on our fall virtual programming page, that is where we’re listing all of our workshops and programming for the semester. So, you can always check back there. We have a community webinar going on at the end of this month on September 24th. So, that’s for any EOP student. You could be a first-year student, you could be a senior. It’s going to be a range of different games and icebreaker, get-to-know-you activities for students to connect virtually and meet other folks and just talk about the fall transition.

Yuki Burton:
Our EOP STEM program is also having a STEM Support webinar panel and that’s happening at the end of this month as well. We’ll include that in the links. EOP STEM is a great community to connect with if you’re a student declared in STEM. If you’re a student interested or thinking about STEM and you’re not declared, EOP STEM is for you as well. They have a lot of great workshops, professional development experiences, mentorship, mentorship programs as well. So, those are just a few to tap in with. We’ll be posting more throughout the semester as well.

Yuki Burton:
If you’re a student experiencing academic difficulty, so maybe you’re on academic probation or subject to dismissal, continued on probation, our R2R program continues to offer monthly workshops as well. So, these are enrichment workshops where you can meet other students going through similar experiences and also connect with some really trusted campus resources as well. So, it’s here. I know virtual format is different. We know it’s not the same feel as being in-person, but please don’t self-select out if you feel like you could benefit from any of these free services, because we really created them for these students specifically in mind.

Laura Vogt:
So, let’s kind of wrap it up with any thoughts that you would like to add or reiterate.

Yuki Burton:
I would just emphasize… Let me see, looking through my notes. I think just the importance of really owning and leaning into vulnerability. I think I have seen students who are the most successful, the most grounded who’ve been able to connect with the things that they’ve been running from the most during their Berkeley journey. I think that comes with that honest self-reflection, hard conversations. Maybe a little bit of therapy or counseling for some folks, that can help as well. But really leaning into that vulnerability to think about it as a strength and not as a weakness, not as a deficit, but something that really can catapult you to the next level, the next level of awareness, the next level of wellness. So, something that I encourage for all of our students.

Laura Vogt:
Jasso, is there other thoughts that you wanted to add to or reiterate?

Jose Jasso:
Yes, like Yuki said, it’s okay to be vulnerable. I didn’t grow until I began to be honest with myself. Like I said, you belong here at Berkeley. Even if you have your doubts at time, but be honest with yourself. It’s okay to ask for help. It’s okay to go to a friend and ask for help or to talk about anything like that, because in the long run is going to help. You just got to be honest with yourself sometimes and be kind to yourself.

Laura Vogt:
I like that note, ending on the idea of being kind to yourself. That seems kind of like a really nice way to wrap all of this up today. So, thank you so much, Yuki and Jasso for joining us. I really appreciate your time and your insights for our students.

Yuki Burton:
Thank you so much for-

Jose Jasso:
Thank you for having me.

Yuki Burton:
Yeah, for having this conversation.

Laura Vogt:
We threw a lot of links and talked about some websites for you today. So, those are all going to be listed on our website, welcomengineer.berkeley.edu. Thank you everyone for tuning in to the (Not So) Secret Guide to Being a Berkeley Engineer. I look forward to podcasting with you next week.